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看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息  

2012-06-20 15:47:03|  分类: 军事 |  标签: |举报 |字号 订阅

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  中国歼20的研制速度超过所有人的预期

  China's J-20 Stealth Fighter Is Already Doing A Whole Lot More Than Anyone Expected

  作者:jinjianjun1030 发布日期:2012-06-05

  New pictures of the China's J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter have surfaced and are making their way across military blogs.

  中国的军事博客中出现了J-20威龙的新的照片。

  This newest round of photos show the J-20 in the skies somewhere over mainland China.

  从新的照片中看到J-20在中国大陆某处飞行。

  The prototype is said to be using the Saturn AL-31 turbofan engine developed by the Russian's for their Su-27 air superiority fighter.

  据说这架原型机的发动机来源于俄罗斯土星科学生产联合公司为其空优战机苏-27研制的AL-31.

  Reuben Johnson at The Washington Times reports the Chinese may be as much as 10 years away from producing an original stealth engine to slip into the J-20.

  Reuben Johnson在华盛顿时报上称中国可能还需要10年才能使他们的J-20装上自己的隐身发动机。

  (译者注:没有隐身发动机一说,第四代(俄罗斯为5代)发动机主要是增加了推力以及矢量喷口,使得战机在不开加力的情况能超音速飞行和在任意速段都能获得更加灵活的机动性,另外F-22的发动机尾喷为矩形口,这样可以降低其尾部的红外特征,我国的J-20目前还没有看到尾喷做了矩形化,但是J-20的腹鳍一定程度上遮挡了发动机尾喷的红外特征。也没有明显图片或者视频佐证J-20装了矢量喷口。)

  In the meantime, they'll have to take comfort in the fact that while the F-22 Raptor may be more agile and made entirely in the U.S., the Dragon carries more fuel and weapons than Lockheed's fighter.

  同时,另我们安慰的是,J-20的机动性要比F-22更加好,J-20也能携带比洛马F-22更多的燃油和武器。

  The J-20's development is also moving along much faster than anyone had expected. Back in 2009, Gen. He Weirong, deputy commander of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force said in a TV interview that the J-20 wouldn't be operational until 2017-2019. That estimate will likely be revised if work continues at the current pace.

  尽管如此,J-20的进展速度也超过所有人的预期。在2009年,中国空军司令何为荣说过如果按照现在的进度J-20会在2017-2019年开始装备部队。

  Bill Sweetman at AviationWeek points out that for all its headway, no one is yet sure what the J-20 is for. He speculates that given the aircraft's size and weapons bays, it may be used to "threaten intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets and tankers, by using stealth and speed to defeat their escorts."

  Bill Sweetman在AviationWeek杂志上指出,没人知道他们研制J-20的为了做什么,但是他猜测通过分析J-20的尺寸和载弹量,它也许是用来威吓、监视、侦测和摧毁他国护航舰队或飞机。

看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息 - qwlhnyl - qwlhnyl 的博客

  (译者注:数字+名字,表示新编的楼层+发言者的名字)

  2jagjitnatt(印度):

  Looked more impressive in the first pics. Doesn't look that impressive now. Stealth wise, it doesn't seem to trump the Raptor or the F-35 as it seemed earlier. I think it will have a greater rcs than even the PakFa.

  还是它出来时的第一张照片比较震撼,现在也没那么新鲜了。在隐身能力上,他应该不会比出道更早的猛禽和F-35更优秀。我认为他的RCS比PAKFA更大。

  (译者注:RCS是指雷达反射面积,对于飞机来说越小越好,PAKFA俄罗斯研制的T-50隐形战机)

  3peaceful(居台香港人):

  回复楼上2jagjitnatt :PAKFA is never a real stealth fighter, it is just a hobby project to get those easy indian money.

  PAKFA根本不是一款真正的隐身飞机,它只是俄毛用来忽悠你们的钱而做的一个业余项目。

  4nomi007(巴基斯坦):

  回复2楼2jagjitnatt:thanks GOD any indian accept that rcs of j-20 is greater than pakfa

  感谢上苍,有印度人居然同意J-20的RCS大于PAKFA

  5timetravel(印度):

  LCA looks much better then J-20.

  LCA看上去比J-20更好。

  (译者注:LCA是印度自己研制的万国零件微型飞行综合体)

  6graphican(旅澳巴基斯坦人):

  回复2楼2jagjitnatt:You are too much relying on aesthetics and personal visual preference for the judgement of military hardware

  从你的回复看,你对这些军备的评论夹杂了太多的个人美学评判。

  7SamBahadur(印度):

  回复楼上6graphican:what JJ said is right because of unstealthy canards , conventional engine nozzles and huge body compared to PAK-FA the RCS of J-20 is definitely greater than that of PAK-FA ( note J20 is the only so called stealth aircraft which uses canards )

  伟大的2楼说的是正确滴,从J-20的常规发动机喷嘴以及庞大的身躯来看,它的RCS绝对要比PAKFA大得多。(PS:J-20才是伪四代机呢)

  8rcrmj(中国):

  回复7SamBahadur:super doper LCA has no canards and tiny body it most be as 'stealthy' as F-22 then, i bet many bhartis think that already according to you indians delusional nature

  出于对印度人拥有天然的妄想症考虑,我打赌大部分印度愤青是这样认为的:超级害虫LCA没有谣言(译者注:讽刺LCA无人关注,SamBahadur回复中说J-20是谣言堆积起来的四代机,译者为了语句平滑没有直译),以及由于它那小身板,它应该比F-22的隐身行都强哦。

  9Kiss_of_the_Dragon(中国):

  回复1楼2jagjitnatt: Time will tell dude...beside that all talk about J-20 vs PakFa...F-22 are just BS and speculative. One said only battlefiel will produce great solder not in training camp, same for aircrafts.

  小屁孩,时间会证明。除此以外所有关于J-20 VS PAKFA或者F-22都是推测。有人说过:制造优秀战士的地方是战场而不是训练营,这个定理也适用于飞机。

  10timetravel(印度):

  回复楼上9Kiss_of_the_Dragon:PAKFA will be the raptor killer. J-20(or21,22) will be below F-35 and below Su30MKI (chinese claims notwithstanding). India + Russia together is the best combination in the world. China works alone. Cooperation and team work is the basis of success.

  PAKFA是猛禽终结者,J-20(或者什么21、22的)连F-35和Su30Mki都不如。印度+俄罗斯是全球最牛叉的组合哦。中国总是单干,合作才是成功的基础。

  (译者注:Su30MKI是印度从俄罗斯那进口“先进战斗机”初期该机由于技术不成熟以及印度 悲催的维护,该机总是出问题被号称“机场保卫者”与此相反的是我国在多年后引进了Su30Mkk以及改进型Su30Mk2,虽然该机没有Su30Mki的2元喷口(连 俄罗斯 自己都不用玩意)和其他“先进技术”但是我国当时处于对自身情况考虑以及本身作为一个武器输出国的经验购买了Su30Mk2,现在我空军和海航部队中Su30Mk2依旧持续其稳定和高效的表现,依据PUPU的玄天九变一书中,事后,俄罗斯 对我国军方的成熟和稳重评价甚高,另注Su30可能已经被XX了,编号J-16)

看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息 - qwlhnyl - qwlhnyl 的博客

  11DrSomnath999(印度):

  回复9Kiss_of_the_Dragon:correct . time would tell

  对,时间对证明。走着瞧。

  12ao333(加拿大):

  回复timetravel:Yes, but if the engine, avionics and hull are made in Russia, that is more of a placebo to make sure dumb Indians like you feel that "cooperation" is what's going on instead of another multi-billion dollar arms import.

  And seriously, navigation and compatible ammunition are domestically produced for almost any foreign plane. Indians are as deluded about the FG FA as Pakistanis are about Jf-17.

  There is a reason why the Russians don't want Indian cooperation on PAK FA but in a separate FG FA model which the Russian military will not procure.

  The only cooperation going on is Russian planes and Indian cash.

  是的,为了让愚蠢的印度感觉这是一种合作,通过在俄罗斯制造发动机、航电设备、外壳代替整体引进来自我安慰。更严重的是这款飞机的导航系统以及武器系统几乎与其他装备的外国飞机都不兼容。印度人FGFA战机(俄印联合研制的四代机)上被欺骗正如巴基斯坦在JF-17(成飞为巴铁研制的准3代飞机代替J-7)上被欺骗一样。这是为什么俄罗斯不让印度涉及PAKAF而单独和印度联合研制 俄罗斯 并不会自己装备FGFA的原因。真正的在合作仅仅是俄罗斯的飞机和印度的钱。

  13DARKY(印度):

  回复楼上12ao333:As a matter of fact.. the engine, avionics and the hull is made in India... and would continue to be made for FG FA also... there's something called licenses manufacturing and something called joint manufacturing.

  Except for a few switches and probes(i.e. small parts) every thing for the licenses manufactured Su30MKI is made in India.... making those small parts are uneconomical hence they are imported.

  And Lets leave for the Russians and Indians to decide what they want and don't want of each other in their Joint Project.

  事实上,发动机、航电设备、外壳都是在印度生产。。。而且还未为FGFA生产。。。有个东西叫生产许可证,还有个东西叫联合制造。

  除了一些按钮和小零件外,Su30MKI其他部件都是在许可证下生产的。至于为什么没有生产那些小零件,那是因为这些东西太繁杂,进口反而比自己造便宜。

  14zip(居印尼泊尔人):

  By those pics someone is predicting stealth then i think mig 21 is stealthier than those

  如果通过图片能判定一架飞机的隐身性能,那么我认为MIG-21比他们的隐身性能更好。

  15DARKY(印度):回复8rcrmj:Actually the LCA does have a tiny body without any canards... hence the frontal RCS is lower than that of Mig21 in clean configuration... much better than what Chin J-20 was quoted to be having.... as close as Rafale may be around 0.8m2.

  毫无疑问,LCA拥有一个萝莉的身材,因此,她的正面RCS明显要比MIG21小哦,而且已经证明了也比中国J-20更好,可能与法国阵风战机的0.8平米差不多。

  16ao333(加拿大):

  回复13DARKY:Pak FA engine, avionics and hull are made in India??? You sane? Don't troll me; proof please.MKI are assembled in India with Russian kits. That is not indigenous. I am not going to go over this with you. But producing a plane with foreign equipment is again, a placebo for Indians like you to feel that India is making progress rather than licensing foreign equipment for domestic assembly.

  PAKFA的发动机、航电设备、外壳都在印度制造?不要怪我,你脑子没被枪打过吧?其实MKI只是在印度利用毛子的配套货组装而已,根本没有完全本地化。我不想和你在这个问题上纠缠,只是利用国外零件“生产”一架飞机而不是在国外许可证下“组装”一架飞机使印度觉得自己在进步,不过这只是一种自我安慰罢了。

看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息 - qwlhnyl - qwlhnyl 的博客

  17Aramsogo(旅美华人):

  回复楼上16ao333:How do the MKI kits work?? Do the Russians essentially build, test and break it down again for Indian egos to re-assemble ???

  MKI的配件是怎么安装起来的?是不是俄罗斯建造、测试然后完全拆开,最后为了印度人的脸面在重现组装起来?

  18ChineseTiger1986(中国):

  J-20 originally derived from the J-9 project which pre-dated the Mig 1.42/1.44 so far.

  J-20设计来自于比米格1.42/1.44更早的J-9项目。

  (译者注:这位网友发了一张J-9的照片,前面版主删除了大量的回复,估计是针对J-20是否有山寨技术的对骂)

  (译者注:此处,.某位斯里兰卡同学发了大量J-20的图片….)

  19SinoChallenger(中国):

  LOL at indians deluding themselves that LCA is a stealth fighter, and better than J-20

  They don't even know their self-delusion and big talk is destined to utter failure again

  笑,印度人又在欺骗自己了,什么LCA隐身性能比J-20还优秀。他们不知道他们的自欺欺人将再一次彻底的失败。

  20peaceful(居台香港人):

  回复19SinoChallenger:it is in our interest to keep them in such delusion. nothing is better than having a stupid and lazy india. we simply can't afford to have a smart hard working india, can we? now the only issue how we can make them believe that india is far better developed than China/US。(译者注:同帖中还有2个引用回复,但由于涉及删除内容,略过不译)

  这是我们的一种兴致,让印度人有这样一种妄想,没有什么比愚蠢和懒惰的印度人更好的了。我们不可能看到一个聪明而且努力工作的印度,对么?接下去的问题是,我们怎么忽悠他们认为印度比中美还发达。

  21 wanglaokan(中国):

  回复10timetravel:India is funding while Russia is doing R&D, you call it cooperation?

  印度提供资金,俄罗斯研发,这叫合作?

  22BordoEnes(土耳其):

  I want to become a pilot one day, And a good one to. But if i see a J-20 right behind my back, i would **** my pants!!

  我想成为一名优秀的飞行员,但是如果我看到J-20在我背后的话,我会吓的拉一裤子。(译者注:猜测被屏蔽的字是s_h_i_t)

  23 tvsram1992(印度):

  回复22BordoEnes:Only option could be u becoming pilot of Chinese aircraft and J20 escorting you !!!

  只有一种可能,就是你成为一名中国飞行员,然后J-20就可以再你身后护航啦。

  (译者注:意指不可能存在J-20追着别国飞机后边,J-20在击落他国飞机前会被先击落。)

  24Kiss_of_the_Dragon(中国):

  回复(引用内用被删除,不过他的回复蛮长故译之)China certainly is not stripping nake to show to the world every single wires inside J-10A...that's how we keep India paranoid and supecious about Chinese military...hidding our strenght and weakness. you can alway claim that J-10A is inferior to Mig-29 until we meet in the sky...and then If you're so sure about you said...I'm wondering why your gorverment still need to shop around the world for new fighter such Rafale.

  As for your LCA....it's not better because western countries have prevent "thief intention" or nicely speaking "TOT" so they've dragged their feets and delayed helping India to fully make this aircraft operation ...LCA =laugh cry aircraft compare to JF-17 which already operation and will be soon to be upgrated with more advance technologies.

  中国当然不能把J-10A的每根电线都公布于众啦,(译者注:估计前面在说J-10A是山寨的)这样才能让印度人觉得中国军队是多疑的、华而不实,顺便隐藏我们的实力和弱点。在J-10A与MIG-29在天空遭遇前,你可以无止境的吹嘘MIG-29强于J-10A。

  如果你说的是正确的(印度军工是如此的强大),我好奇怪为什么印度政府还在到处采购类似阵风这样的飞机呢?

  说到你们的LCA,状况肯定不太好啦。因为西方国家为了防止你们的小偷倾向和拍马屁,所以他们已经放慢脚步帮助你们完成整个建造计划啦。.LCA =laugh cry aircraft与已经装备服役而且将进行先进改装的JF-17来说,LCA真心悲剧。

  25DRDO(印度):

  回复24Kiss_of_the_Dragon:After decaeds of experience in coping you made J10 and JF17. J10 not showed to world (because even worse than Jf17) but JF17 is in open market and we all know it..... Do I need to say more

  All your fanboy stuff AESA, Chinese engine every thing is in development

  根据数十年的山寨经验,你们制造了J10和JF17。J10由于性能比JF17还差的性能没有在世界上展出,而JF17为了战斗机市场而被展出。还要我说什么么?那些满脑子AESA(有源相控阵电子雷达)的痴迷者,中国一切东西仅仅才刚起步呢。

  26Secur(巴基斯坦)

  回复25DRDO:Did you examine J 10 personally ? Or read any sort of report on its failure ?Yes you do about JF 17 ... You do not need to say more ... Keep dreaming about AMCA ...But first try to complete your development of the three decade old aircraft and then talk **** here ... Isn't it rich coming from an Indian that Chinese produced a aircraft ( actually aircraftS ) after decades of reverse engineering when they couldn't themselves get Tejas in active service after decades of License Manufacturing ?  ... Dont get me lame excuses that we dont copy and **** ... You had the precious experience after license producing SU 30 MKI / Mig 21 / Jaguar / Gnat etc ...

看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息 - qwlhnyl - qwlhnyl 的博客

  I see a lot of Indians calling J20 theft / reverse engineering and what not ... Even if it is , Can you even do that ? One simple question to all of them ... Is an Indian pilot going to ask its Chinese counterpart in an aerial combat whether J20 is a copied plane or not ?  ... Does it even matter at the end of the day ? ... If not , then just STFU and move on ... Why try to downplay other's successes ?

  你看到了J10的审查报告了?并在上面发现它的缺陷了?是的,你确实对JF17了解很多,你确实不需要说什么了。继续做你的AMCA(印度提出的一种中型四代机)大梦吧。但首先完成改进你们30年的老飞机吧。印度不会懂得现在的中国人能够制造自己飞机的原因是通过大量的逆向工程和许可证建造等到的经验。不要告诉我你们不削山寨的蹩脚原因是通过许可证生产SU 30 MKI / Mig 21 / 美洲虎 / 暴风之神等飞机也可以获得研制飞机的经验。我看到好多印度人说J20的偷来的技术/山寨的技术,请问即使是这样,你丫给我造一架试试?一个简单的问题,在空战中一个印度飞行员会考虑J20是不是山寨的么?如果不会,那么请你闭上嘴,然后继续YY,搞不懂你们印度人为什么老是贬低别人的成功涅?

  27Kiss_of_the_Dragon(中国):

  回复25DRDO:We dont show to the world because the gorverment is busy to make such U.S, India trade deficit vis-a-vis China than to promote J-10 as export.Remember this we made copies to achieve Independent, to avoid black-mail and at mercy of other nations for spare parts or service...that's beyond your Indian comprehension.

  我们没有公开J-10是因为我们的ZF正在忙着制造类似美国、印度这样国家对我国的贸易赤字和J-10的出口问题。记住,我们之所以山寨是为了之后的独立自主、防止被敲咋和祈求其他国家的技术施舍,不过这种行为已经超越了你们印度人的理解范围。

  28Secur(巴基斯坦):

  回复27Kiss_of_the_Dragon:Yeah , who wants to be like Indians ... Excellent at making high claims but no development to show ... I have seen hundreds of self-ego satisfying Indians on BR and PDF dreaming how AMCA can join the IAF one day and bring a revolution in the world of aeronautics ... Just look at the Indian newspapers and channels with reports like how " Tejas will be flying anytime now " and " Agni 5 will be tested soon " and " DRDO will soon make Star War like weapons " blah blah ... Though the dates keep extending and Yes , its beyond their comprehension ...

  是啊,那就是印度人。出发点好高骛远,却从没达到过终点。成千上百的印度人自我陶醉于,他们的AMAC服役于印度空军,并且AMAC给航空世界带来一场革命。看看那些印度报纸和电视上的报道吧“Tejas(译者注:印度售假国产舰载机)可以在任何时候起飞”“烈火5导弹即将试发射”“印度国防研究与发展组织将研发类似星战中的武器”“巴拉巴拉”然后预期却一天天的往后拖。话说回来,的确有些东西超越了印度人的理解范围。

  29DRDO(印度):

  回复26Secur:Yes we can dream AMCA cause we are not totally dependent on one country like you。 Whatever they made you have to accept  Doesn't count how good or bad it is。I dnt want to start Jf17 vs LCA but LCA is still better than JF17 even its not inducted in IAF。Like all Chinese fighters J10B, J16,17,18,19,20,21 .........  its a fanboy stories about AESA, Chinese Engine... just prove it and talk .... Only Chinese known to world is J10 and JF17 nothing else

  是的,我们可以憧憬我们的AMAC,因为我们不是完全只依靠一个国家(译者注:暗指巴基斯坦只依靠中国)。不管他们给你们什么你们都必须接受,而且根本没机会谈论那玩意的好坏。 我不想谈论JF17 VS LCA,这个毫无疑问LCA强很多,JF17俺们印度空军根本看不上。请证明下那些中国飞机比如J10B、J16、17、18、19、20、21装上了有源相控阵雷达和中国发动机在来谈吧。只有J10和JF17才被世人知道。

  30Secur(巴基斯坦):

  回复29DRDO:Sure , continue dreaming ... You have been doing it since 1980 to develop a MIG 21 ++ aircraft  ... The same is the case with you ... Whatever the Russians and French provide , you have to accept ... What sort of absurd logic was that ?  Yes indeed , A aircraft which isn't even in operational service and only 7 have been produced till date is better than an aircraft with 3 active squadrons and in service since 3 years You can keep deluding yourself about how they are fanboy stories ... For people like you , J10 , J 11's and JFT's dont even exist  ... FYI , J10's and J11's even at the moment fly with Chinese engines ... Just wait one day when they will be shown to the world like the Chinese Aircraft Carrier and you will deny even then ... Denial mode , ai'nt it ?

  是的,请继续白日做梦。。。自从1980年你们是这发展MIG-21+++开始,你们就开始做梦。同样的,不管俄罗斯或者法国给你们什么,你们必须接受。你那荒谬的逻辑让人蛋疼。是的,一种TMD还没在空军服役的,甚至研制完成还遥遥无期的飞机(译者注:暗指AMCA)比一种NMD已经生产了3个中队的并且在空军服役3年的飞机强多了(译者注:暗指J-10A),呵呵,对于你们这些人来说,什么J-10,J-11和其他J系飞机都是不存在的。我偷偷地告诉你,安装着中国发动机的J10、J11此刻正在空中翱翔呢。只需等那么一天,当他们像中国的航空母舰一样被展示出来的时候,你这种鸵鸟还会开启拒不承认的光环么?

看印度阿三巴铁对话歼20:曝十分惊人的信息 - qwlhnyl - qwlhnyl 的博客

  31DRDO(印度):

  回复30Secur:No we dnt induct what they provide us ... this is why LCA not inducted in IAF. Indian Aircraft carrier will float well before Chinese one.So they can produce engine for heavier J10 and J11 but not for JF17 ???

  我们不把他们提供东西加入现役,所以LCA也没在印度空军中服役。还有印度的航母将先于中国航母下水,另外为什么他们能够生产自己的发动机装备在J10和J11上却不装备在JF17上呢?

  32Secur(巴基斯坦):

  回复31DRDO:Yes Indeed , Just like the Rafale before it was bought by Indians ...  Do i need to remind how long did it take to make its first sale ? Well , Indian AC has been just floating since 1953  ... In case of war , it needs to be hidden somewhere because it is of no use , cant threaten the enemy , cant defend itself and is so old that almost 5 refits have been done till now ...Ever heard about Farnborough Show or WS 13 or Am i speaking to a person who has no knowledge whatsoever of the Chinese technology ?

  是的,就像你们买阵风之前。需要我提醒你这玩意花了多少时间来进行其首次出售吗?对的,印度的航母早在1953就下水了。。。万一开展,这家伙要被藏得远远的,因为他不能自我防御更别说威胁到别人了,并且这具老骨头已经被改装了5次。另外,你对中国技术了解多少,你知道WS13么?

  33Jungibaaz(巴基斯坦):

  回复29DRDO:IMHO LCA is a massive success IF you take out the foreign components, the time period is justified if it is for the most part made in India.

  I wont be questioning LCA or your ability to make AMCA, so please keep it out of this thread.

  The Chinese shouldn't have any problems with AESA, they've got PESA for sure, a few things that point to a Chinese AESA... As ever many insiders confirm AESA, same insiders that weren't trusted by 'some folks' over J-XX or J-20. J-11 is said to use AESA, or there is an AESA that can be used on the J-11B, ZDK-03 uses AESA, the tech is there, they've been working on AESA for many years now. Also there is a need for AESA, we know that China CAN purchase AESA and reverse engineer if it wishes to do so, since it hasn't, it is safe to say that they've got it or that they think that they can get it... upgrades on J-11 and J-10, and the new J-20 would be somewhat meaningless if there is no AESA, there is a dire need for it on Chinese 5th gen platforms.

  鄙人的意见是,如果没有使用外国的配件,那么LCA是成功的。另外如果所有的部件都是印度造的话,这个研制周期也相当合理嘛。我不怀疑LCA和你们是否有能力建造MACA,但是请不要歪楼,谢谢。

  中国人在AESA和PESA上没有任何问题,许多东西都证明中国有ASEA。。。许多业内人士和民间爱好者都确认了J-11安装了AESA,同样的J-11B和ZDK-03(中国为巴基斯坦研制的一款预警机)都安装了AESA,那是明摆在那的。他们在AESA上已经研究了好几年。当然如果中工程师愿意,他们可以采购或者山寨AESA。所以不管怎么的,他们肯定已经拥有了AESA,更不用说他们现在的五代机正需要AESA。

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